From Addiction And Codependency To Healing Through Identity In Christ

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, thank you again for joining us on another episode of the Dorsey US show. Today's guest is someone with a powerful heart for helping people experience healing, freedom, and a deeper identity in Christ. Steve Rudamond is an author, speaker, and founder of Work Right Ministries, a Christ-centric ministry focused on helping individuals break free from drama, addiction, and codepens codependency through

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:33

biblical teaching and recovery principles. Through coaching, teaching and criscent a Christ-centric four-step recovery community is passionate about guiding people to understand who they are and truly are interesting and helping them work in the freedom and purpose God has for their laws. His own learning through hardship and struggles and restorations has happened, the message he shares today, one of hope, redemption and transformation flu flu seekers. We're excited to hear his story, the mission behind what great ministries and how people can begin their own journey towards healing and identity in Christ. Steve, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, hello, Dorsey. Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here and finally able to connect. So I'm I'm gonna enjoy this.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yes. Well, I always like to open up with a icebreaker question. And today's icebreaker question is what's your favorite funny story to tell?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

What is my favorite funny story to tell? Man, I've got so many of them. Wow. A lot of them have to do when I wasn't the best person, so let's try to keep a good one. No. Let's try to keep a good one. Man, a funny story I'll tell you is with meeting my wife. So I was a I've always been a part-time volunteer police officer, or I was for 25 years. And I got a

The Night He Met His Wife

SPEAKER_00 2:03

call to her house one night in the middle of the night and pulled up, and she was just completely upset crying. And, you know, I was doing my job. I walked up, but the moment I walked up, I was thinking to myself, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is like the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. And unfortunately, her ex-husband wasn't returning the kids. She had no idea where they were. He didn't respond. And her and a friend tracked him down through social media, and I went over to the house and I was able to get her son and bring her son back. And she was grateful and went on. And I worked the next day because I worked 12-hour shifts, so the next day I came in and uh she was outside sitting on a porch and her kids were playing. And I stopped by and talked to her, said, Hey, is everything okay? You know, she said, Yeah, thank you again. And I'm like, Oh, sure, anytime you need anything. Anyway, I would I would see her walking, she'd walk around the the town I worked in and exercise, whatnot. Just happened to be driving down the street and she was walking up the street and I rolled down the window and said, Hi again. And this was a few months later, and I said, Hey, I noticed that car's not in your driveway. And she's like, Yeah, that's a mess. My you know, boyfriend that she had, he was addicted to, you know, some kind of medication. And I said, Man, I just went through all that, and I totally understand that. But anyway, we started to kind of talk and talk and talk every time I'd work, more or less, quite honestly. The funny part of the story is I pretty much stalked her. She was 13 years younger than me. I stalked her. And the funny thing is, I ended up hiring her friend. I had a business at the time as well, and ended up hiring her friend. Her friend came to work for me, did some administration, human resource stuff, and I had a girlfriend at the time. I was breaking up with her, and she's like, you know, my friend Sarah really digs you. And I was like, Are you kidding me? And she said, No. And I'm like, I am in love with that girl. And uh so she set us up for a lunch, and the rest of the story is we've been married now for almost 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Okay. Now I know some of your story, and tell us a little bit more about your story and your background, and what was that Granny like for you, and how did it shape your faith today?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, I was so I I was born in St. Louis, Missouri, and I was born in 1970. So in that time, my father and mother got a divorce when I was about four years old. And what was weird was the law was the judge awarded my father custody of me and my brother, and then my mother was awarded custody of my sister.

Childhood Trauma And Abandonment

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Very weird, but that's how it went down. Well, unfortunately, my mom abandoned us, she just took off and left, and nobody knew where she was. She just vanished, and I did not know who she was at all. My dad got remarried, and so not only do I have this abandonment now from a mother, my dad was an alcoholic off and on, and he loved me the way he could. He did the best he could. I totally understand that. And he said stuff like I'd never amount to anything, or why can't I be better, and just stuff that he didn't know how to probably in context tell me the right way. But I took it as I wasn't good enough and I'm not good enough. So had my brother, mother abandoned me, my father loved me, tolerated me, kind of was there. And growing up further, six years old, I was molested in a construction trailer by a neighbor for a season. And he said, if you would tell anybody, we're gonna be in a lot of trouble. So knowing how my dad was and knowing how he treated me when I was in trouble, I kept my mouth shut. And I did not tell anybody for 30 something years until I got into counseling. I didn't even tell my wife. And moving on growing up with that trauma, that childhood stuff, I ended up marrying a girl. And we had a wonderful marriage, and about three years into our marriage, I found out that she was addicted to pain, medication, narcotics, and that threw us in a just a whirlwind. And for 13 years, I battled that addiction and not knowing that I had codependency at that time. But it really flared up during that addiction. So to back up a little bit, in 1991, I came to know the Lord. I went forward at a church, was completely moved by God, and I was gonna go change the world. If you remember Pom Promise Keepers in the early 90s, so I went to a Promise Keepers event, just felt the Lord moving me, and I came home and said, Man, I'm gonna preach to men like that someday. I'm gonna be all over this, and this is what I'm gonna do. So I got involved in Promise Keepers, went around the Midwest at different conventions and helping them out and doing all kinds of things with them. And I had a business, like I said, and the business started to kind of go. So I didn't take the call into ministry at that time,

Ministry Success With A Hidden Crisis

SPEAKER_00 6:40

and I focused on money and making money and doing that. And business did quite well, but we ended up moving from St. Louis to Columbus, Ohio, and met some neighbors that were playing. Our kids were playing with the neighbor kids. We met the neighbors, they came down and said, Hey, would you like to go to church with us? And we're like, you know, we haven't been in a while because we'd go off and on. And we went to church, and it was like God got a hold of me again. And he's like, you know, I want you to do this. So I got a hold of the pastor, said, I think I got this feeling, I'm not 100% sure. And he took me under his wing and bam, I became a children's pastor. I did a stint from Liberty, Grace University, and I was a children's pastor of 110 kids, running men's ministry, commander of Iwana, if anybody knows Iwana and Southern Baptist community, and then I was a director of Celebrate Recovery, stepped out and planted a church, had a radio ministry, and everything was just going great in ministry, except for there was one little thing. That one little thing was I kept a complete secret that my wife was an addict and battling at. I kept that from the church, I kept that from everybody, and it just finally came to a head when I had that church plant, running about 30 people, watching my wife pass out on the front row, you know, nodding off. I was shameful, super angry at God. Why wasn't he fixing her? Why wasn't he doing anything? I'm sitting here loving on other people, telling them about Jesus and the transformation that's happening, but nothing's happening with me. And it just came to a point where I just walked away. I walked away from the church. I walked away, I handed it over to a River of Life Church. I walked away from ministry, I walked away from God, and we ended up moving out of the town full of, you know, just I had so much shame. And I said, Okay, God, you're not gonna help me, then I guess I'll fix it myself. And I went through two years of complete hell, my codepic codependency battling her addiction. And I mean, a marriage was just falling apart, and I was never transformed. I mean, I believed in God, I loved God, I was hoping to transform people, but I viewed them like I viewed my father, and I was just messed up. I'd come home, take things out on my wife because she'd take medicine or behassin out of church, and then I'd yell at my kids because I didn't know how to handle my emotions, I didn't know I had codependency, so just a complete mess, and it just went just crazy for two years. And a friend of me, a friend of mine, told me, he's like, You need to go see this Christian counselor. And I'm like, I don't need a counselor, I'm a guy, you know? I got this all figured out. It's my wife. She needs to be fixed. So let's fix her and let's move on. And he talked me into it, and I went, and I was there for 15 minutes in that office speaking to this lovely counselor, Christian counselor, good, great man, just a great man, changed my life. Sit there for 15 minutes, and he goes, Yeah, you're part of the problem. What? He's like, You have codependency. He's like, You're destroying your family just as much as she is. You're not using drugs, you're using emotions. I was mad. I was really pissed.

The Counselor Names Codependency

SPEAKER_00 9:16

I wanted to hit him. I wanted to get up and leave, to be honest with you. But I ended up staying, and I left for that session, and I'm like, man, I hired this guy to help me. I hired this guy to be on my side, to tell my wife she's wrong, to tell her that she needs to stop what she's doing, and to let her know that I'm gonna be the hero out of all this because I got all these people standing against her, right? But I went home and looked up codependency, and I was like, my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Finish a statement and then I'll ask you a question.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, and so I looked it up and I traced codependency back to almost every relationship I had since a childhood. And it just clicked with me, and I ended up sticking with this counselor for about six more years.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

So you so you left to you know, you said, Hey, I'm I'm abandoning God, I'm abandoning my faith and whatnot. But yet you went to a Christian counselor.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yes, I did. I mean, I didn't it wasn't like I I wasn't gonna do anything Christian at all. It was just that I didn't have a belief at that time. I was just like, God's not here to help me. I don't even know if any of this is real. But I'll go talk to somebody because my friend was really trying to help me to get better. And then I thought, hey, if I can get somebody on my side, maybe I won't be as crazy because he'll tell my wife that she needs to stop. That's what's the that was honestly the thought process behind it. I don't care if he's a Christian, clown, or you know, random McDonald's. I just wanted somebody to go tell her that, hey, you're wrong and you gotta fix this.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And yet and yet in the end, he can he he come up and tell you you're part of the problem.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yes. Fifteen minutes, I that's a true story. Fifteen minutes into that, he's like, Yeah, you're part of the problem. And he wasn't nice about it at all. He was like, I'm gonna tell you how it is, and that's how it is. And that really it hurt. It really hurt me and it opened my eyes because now you start seeing all the destruction that you're doing to your family and your kids and every relationship I had. I wasn't a pastor because I was looking to be transformed. I was a pastor because I wanted God to fix my wife. I wanted to be a pastor because I felt important. I wanted to be a pastor because I I felt loved. I needed all that stuff because I wasn't getting it from my wife.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Can you give a good definition of what codependency is and what that may look like for my audience?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yes, this is the Steve version of codependency. You could probably understand it. You could look up codependency, obviously, online, but here's the Steve version, which is pretty self-explanatory. If you're putting all your value and worth into another human being, disregarding anything of you, your feelings, your boundaries, anything, you're only as good as that person is. And you put basically all of your own needs, wants, desires on the back burner, and you're bending over backwards just to please this person or make this person try to be the person you need to be because of the feelings

Defining Codependency In Real Life

SPEAKER_00 11:55

that you want. And what I mean by you're only as good as they are that day, it's if you're putting all your worth of value into somebody and they wake up in a bad mood, then how are you? You're a wreck because now you think you did something, and now you're pressing in to try to figure out what you did wrong, and it was nothing to do with you in the beginning, and now you're wrecked and started a fight, and now you're a wreck for seven more days because now you guys are fighting, and it's just a you know, uh it's just a cycle that does not stop. So codependency is just my traits of codependency were I was the savior. There's different there's a a lot of different traits of codependency, but mine was a savior. I had to fix my wife to save her. Why was that? Because she was taking medicine to escape me. She was taking medicine because she didn't like me. That's the thought process a codependent has. And if I can stop that, she'll like me. She'll realize that I really saved her and tried to help her, and then I'll be the hero and she'll love me. That's what codependency is.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Did she have that addiction before you guys got married? And did you know before you got married that she had that addiction or did it start when in the marriage?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

It started in the marriage. Three years into our marriage is when I found out that she had an addiction. Her father passed away and she had some trauma that she didn't settle with him and she just didn't know how to deal with it, and that's what forced her onto medicine.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

How and again, talking about your wife addiction for a minute, how did your wife addict and quietly reshape your view of God?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I was angry. I viewed God as somebody that, like I said earlier, it's I viewed him as my earthly father, like a lot of people do. Okay, he's a guy that's sitting up there. He loves me how he can, and he tolerates me. And thank God that he sent Jesus to sneak me in the back door because I smell, and that's how I viewed God. So when she had the addiction, I prayed. I, you know, God, you can fix this, and he kept not wanting to fix it. So I thought. And it wasn't until later on that it just started to shape into my anger just started to go towards God. He's not here to fix anybody. This is all a lie, this is all a scam. And that's how I felt. I felt he wants to do this for everybody but me because of the codependency. That's the codependency thought.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

This is this is for everybody, and I don't get to partake in any of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

So you leave you leave the church, you go to a Christian consular. What happens after that?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So he told me something very, very profound when I was in that healing process. He said, You need to find your identity in Jesus Christ. And I laughed, and I'm like, I was a pastor for years, many years. I know Jesus, I know who he is, and I just don't fit into that box anymore. And he's like, No, you felt like an adopted son. He's like, you have to walk into a full sonship, your spiritual sonship of the full inheritance of what you've earned in the kingdom. And I was like, okay, that's kind of weird, but okay. And we went down that road for the next few years,

Learning Identity And Sonship In Christ

SPEAKER_00 14:53

and it just started to click and layers just started to fall off of me, and I started to view God as love instead of a mean father that is just waiting for me to mess up. And it was j in John 14, where he says, Jesus says, In that day you will know that I'm in my father, my father's in me, and we're in you, and we're entangled in this life together, and we're in here doing a union. And of course I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he said. And that just opened up my eyes, and I started to dig more on the love of God instead of how can I get around the angry part of God.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

What is what is your definition or what do you think identity in Christ is?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Identity in Christ is knowing that you were created before the foundations of the earth and had a relationship with God and were created in the image of Jesus Christ before all that even happened. And then when Adam and Eve did their little shenanigans in the garden, that's what cursed us. That's what we were born into. Now, not realizing what the blood of Jesus did on the throne, you can either stay in that old Adam or you can now accept that love and move into the new power of the new Adam, which is Jesus, and understand that Paul was saying that whole time, you can step out of this old or you can step into the new, or you could live in the old or or step into this newborn again life that you've been given by the blood of Jesus, the redeeming blood. That is knowing your identity in Jesus Christ. Because we're still all, or I was, not everybody. Most people are still stuck in that old Adam identity, that old self that we're not good enough, we're not worthy enough. And what happened in the garden? Adam and Eve sinned, we call it. Well, we think of behavior modification. They sinned. They didn't drink, they didn't smoke, they didn't do anything. They had shame because they were naked, and then they have self-centeredness because they started to play the blame game right away. Those are the first two things that happened right after they they had the fruit. You know, oh, if you didn't give me that woman, I wouldn't be in this situation. Well, if you didn't have that snake here, I wouldn't be in this situation. Just started to blame each other. And that's what we're born into. And all the other sins that we call drinking, all that that damage us, yes, those are the things that come into that I'm not good enough because we drink because we're not good enough, we take drugs because we're not good enough, we you know, watch pornography because we're not good enough relationships. I mean, there's just that old self, and you have to realize there's the new self and what that means. That is your identity in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

And now you're doing a ministry for people with addiction and who are in codependency relationships. Tell us a little bit about that, but also give us a little bit more context of how you came back to or how you got closer to God after that after that time that you that you stuck away from the good kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah, when I was in counseling and started to go through those processes and started to peel back and learning about my identity, I started to open up a little bit and started to surrender a lot. And I'd stepped back into a church. I separated from my wife because I was starting to get clean. I had to save myself so I could save my children and started to walk through that path of life and started to go back to church and slowly with a wall up, started to listen into sermons again and just being involved and trying to just help with the kids getting grounded and slowly coming back. And the passion I have now, now mind you, this was 12 years went by, and I finally was able to talk with God and say, Are you ever gonna put me back into ministry? Because I really don't like this less than feeling that I'm having because I know that's not part of my identity. You taught me through all that, but why am I not being used in ministry? And he told me, you need to forgive. And I said, I've forgiven everybody, I've forgiven my wife, I've forgiven you know my father the way he treated me, forgiven my mother, I've forgiven everybody. And he's like, You haven't forgiven yourself. And I just busted out crying in prayer. And he showed me that I didn't forgive myself for being a horrible father to my boys, and I never forgave myself for not being able to fix my wife. And as soon

Forgiving Himself And Facing Loss

SPEAKER_00 19:00

as I was able to do that, just all these dreams and aspirations and everything just started to boil up, and that's how ministry started.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

What happened with a wife with her addiction and how is she doing today?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

It doesn't end well. She passed away three years ago by an overdose. And we went through a a divorce. I was awarded custody of the kids. She took off, she took off and abandoned my kids, our kids, and went down a road of when you're cut off from Medicaid and and medical stuff and doctors, then you go to heroin and meth, and that's what she ended up going to. And unfortunately, she couldn't fight her demons off herself, and just that was what took her life.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Thank you. Tell her about your book and God's Imperfect Plan is perfect, and what is that about?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, I wrote the book. He uh told me one day that all the journaling that I'm doing would make a good book, wouldn't it? I said, sure. So I wrote a book, and it is called God's Imperfect Plan is Perfect. I wrote the book not to be a number one sales book salesperson. You know, I'm honest here. I'm totally humble and honest. If people buy it, great. If they don't, it doesn't bother me. I didn't do this or get into this to sell books, and like, oh, okay, I'm gonna start being an author. And no, I

God’s Plan Versus Our Expectations

SPEAKER_00 20:15

wrote the book to heal. I wrote the book to heal, but also to help other people. Because when I was teaching kids, when I was a children's pastor, we teach that God's love is great, and you're gonna have a wonderful plan and this beautiful life, and you're gonna have you're gonna be married and have three kids, you're gonna have a yellow house, and you're gonna have a dog, you get to name it boomer, and you're gonna work at the accounting firm. We we teach that to these kids in church. Well, what happens when you grow up and you can only have one child because of issues? You're in a blue house, you have a cat, your partner won't let you name the cat boomer, and you're not working at the counting firm, you're at a gas station. Who are you gonna blame? You're gonna blame God. God did this to me. That's part of his plan. It's like, no, there's that's not it at all. The plan is what we have to understand through that process is we can make choices that bring us bad consequences if we make the bad choice. And we have to understand that we have traumas growing up. We're already born in that trauma, right? The less than. So then we have family trauma on top of it. So then when we get into a pickle like I did, if we don't have a full understanding of who we are or what Jesus did for us, the plan's gonna suck. And that's what I thought for many years until I look back and realized he was in every single part of every part of my life. I just never let him in. And didn't know about him, truly. But so the the book is about that plan after we understand this. So the plan is he wants us to be love, he wants us to be light. We're supposed to walk by others now that you know we've gone through a certain suffering. You're to now walk next to somebody that's going through that suffering and love on them and help them through that. That's kingdom living. That's the heaven principles, I believe, that we're supposed to do now, here, and be that love and be that light. Simple, but complicated.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah. Where is your ministry located and uh How can people get connected with your ministry? And who is the ministry for?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah, the ministry is for anybody that is battling an unhealthy habit. You know, when we think of addiction, we think of two people, alcoholics and drug users. But there are so many unhealthy habits that we have that keep us from the identity in Jesus Christ. It's for anybody that needs to go through finding that identity, healing through your processes of trauma, and going through that system. Now, I'm targeting partners,

Who The Ministry Helps Most

SPEAKER_00 22:30

you know, people that are married to an addict. It's for anybody, but solely the ministries for spouses that are married to an addict that's battling addiction and help them walk through that because I don't want to see kids destroyed anymore. I don't want to see families destroyed anymore. It may not end up that the husband or wife gets fixed and everything's, you know, a great fairy tale story, but if they have to leave, we walk them through that and what that looks like because a lot of people are fear, living in fear, afraid of that. Some people feel less than now that because their marriage failed, but ultimately it's letting them identify themselves and who they are in Jesus Christ and realize that I joke around on all these reels, and it's like, I'll give you the number one thing on how to fix your spouse that's an addict. And then at the end of the video, it's like, okay, I'll give you the one thing you can't and you won't. They have to do it on their own. So it's separating that point. Once you can get clean and healthy, you can either continue to love and support the other person, or you can realize that I was never really in love with this person. I was just a codependent myself and just wrapped into the trauma. So we just help identify all that. But it's for anybody. I mean, Jesus could work on anybody. He's he's not niche specific to where this ministry is. And where you can find this ministry is online. It's a digital ministry. I created this community so everybody can jump into the community and support and walk with other people. And it's online ww.walkright ministries.com, and you can find out about the speaking, the book. I've got a podcast I just started to roll out called Reclaiming Your Identity, which is designed for those people. And then you can get pointed to our actual community, which is Walkright Community.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, if I if there was a question that I didn't ask you or that I should have asked you, what would that question be and what would the answer be?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Is there victory through all this? And the answer is amen, yes. There is victory. If you work these foundations I put together for your identity in Jesus Christ, which the counselor helped me through, God will transform you. And I mean fully transform you. I used to think people like me were weird. And it's like, how can you love God that much? And how can you boldly be that weird? And I don't, no offense. I'm just saying I'm just being totally honest with you. Because a lot of people think Christianity is sitting in a church and going to church every Sunday. That's Christianity, and that's

What Real Christian Transformation Means

SPEAKER_00 24:48

not Christianity. Christianity is not sitting in a church every week. Christianity is being transformed by the full love of Jesus Christ and what he's done on the cross and living out that identity now. That is transformation, and that is what Christianity is. And we sell a ticket to go to heaven, which heaven's going to be wonderful, don't get me wrong. But once you get that ticket to heaven and put it in your pocket, if you go home and you still belittle your wife and you still belittle your kids like I did, you're not transformed, and you're not transforming, and you're not letting God into those spaces to heal whatever it is to keep you being acting like that. So that's the stuff we need to do to let that victory ultimately come to play.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah. You're talking about the search, and you know, we go to circumstances and we go to circumvene, and you know, we interact with people at the search and friends that we know and everything, and we say, you know, we ask them, hey, how are you doing? You know, most of the time it's hey, I'm doing good and doing well. You know, once in a while you get the, you know, non-Christian answer of, hey, I'm not doing well this week. This is what's going on. But my question is, is there the settings or is there a number of those out there either in no

Shame In Church And Hidden Pain

SPEAKER_01 26:00

specifically in the you know who are christening, who are dealing with something similar, you know, that you that you dealt with that we may not even know about.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

There are tons of people that are living like that. And it's sad. Just like you said, we interact with everybody, but I was a pastor and I was afraid to come to people for shame, for fear. I'd lose my job. I'd fear that they wouldn't trust in me anymore. That is the devil. The devil doesn't care that you go to church every Sunday. The devil doesn't care you raise your hands and sing wonderful songs about Jesus. The devil doesn't care that you serve in children's ministry every single week. He doesn't care. The only thing he wants to do is hurt God, and that is by making you believe a lie and not letting you love and not letting you be a light. So you can go to church and do all those things, and I you know, I've seen this firsthand as a pastor. We get out of church, you go down the cracker barrel, and you've got somebody in your congregation that's cussing out a waitress because their order's wrong and it took forever. Okay, that's not transforming. And that's exactly what the devil wants. You could raise your hands and love God and sing that song, but when you go treat that waitress or somebody like that, he wins. And that's what his you know, we think the devil's pitchfork, fire and evil and demon-possessed. No, he whispers that little lie that says, You suck and you're not good enough. And that's what we believe, and that's what his job is. That's what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah. What one I only want to ask my guest, you know, as we get ready to end here, what would what one word of encouragement that you would give to my listeners who may be, you know, dealing with, you know, an addiction or who may be dealing with codependency.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

You have to stop believing the lies because you're doing the addiction because you believe a lie, or you're in codependency trying to stop an addict and you're believing a lie, or you're partnered with an addict believing that lie. So you have to stop, number one, believing that lie. But most important, out of everything, especially if you have children, think of your children. Because my two older boys that went through this are a complete wreck. And they're not addicts. They're not one, well, one's codependent, love addict, lost everything, had bankruptcy, was in jail, and

A Warning For Parents And Kids

SPEAKER_00 28:16

because he chased around, you know, that he couldn't stop being without this girl. And my older son is just angry at the world and just hates the world and just, you know, and I understand he's not angry at me, but he just doesn't know how to take out his anger. So think of your kids. I went through it for 13 years. If somebody would have approached me two years into it and said, hey, this is how you fix it, oh my gosh, where would my kids be today? Because nothing hurts worse than seeing your kids hurting because of something you caused. And I would never ever dishonor my ex-wife and put that on her because I take full responsibility for being part of that problem.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Dee, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We greatly appreciate having you.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Thank you. It was an honor to be here, and I love obviously talking about Jesus, because I don't shut my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for coming on and tuning in in again, and we greatly appreciate you listening. Please go and check out Steve's uh website and also his uh his book. I'll have the information in the uh show notes and go review and share this

How To Connect And Final Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 29:23

episode and until next time. Have a great day. God bless. Bye.